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"Canada also faces questions about integrity in government following revelations regarding a corruption scandal in the federal government that has helped revive the fortunes of separatists in predominantly francophone Quebec."

CIA- World Factbook on Canada

Ever wonder who writes this stuff? Who "creates" these facts?
That's the wonder of the internet - misinformation spreads slightly faster than fact.
QUOTE(Allen @ Jan 10 2007, 06:21 PM) *

So you are saying there was no scandal?

What does this quote mean?

From 2005
Continued revelations in the corruption scandal bring about a vote of confidence in the House of Commons in May. The Liberals win by only one vote. Follow-up polls suggest that Quebecers are once again considering separation.

Does this quote not explain at least partially the fact book statement? What the fact book states is that the scandal helped revive interest in the separatist movement. Where is the fact book wrong?

Well, I just look at the words "scandal" and "corruption" and feel alot of drama for something that is supposedly in a "fact" book. Truthfully, I don't know all the gory details but I do know that something feels a little slanted and propaganda-ish about the whole statement. I and no one else I know here in Canada, is questioning Canada's integrity. For someone to read that as an "Introduction to Canada" I don't think the words chosen would give them a accurate, muchless FACTUAL view of the truth.
I'm fiercely critical of government, and would say that, yes, the Canadian government is "corrupt", but at a relativistic level, no more so than any other well respected 'democratic' goverment such as the US, AUS, GER, et cetera. To judge the quote by presuming it to be from the US' position, one would have to also say in the factbook that the US faces questions of corruption. It just seems odd that this particular fact was pointed out as something 'out of the ordinary', something historically newsworthy, or 'fact' worthy.

Speaking of facts, and on a totally unrelated note, I hope everyone has seen Steven Colbert's speech at last year's White House Correspondents' Association Dinner. Check it out on youtube or google vid. Holy Crap in the Woods. That's all I have to say about that.
QUOTE(fourloves @ Jan 13 2007, 07:02 AM) *

To judge the quote by presuming it to be from the US' position, one would have to also say in the factbook that the US faces questions of corruption. It just seems odd that this particular fact was pointed out as something 'out of the ordinary', something historically newsworthy, or 'fact' worthy.

Exactly my point. Let's just look at what the US says about themselves in the CIA Factbook:

"The two most traumatic experiences in the nation's history were the Civil War (1861-65) and the Great Depression of the 1930s. Buoyed by victories in World Wars I and II and the end of the Cold War in 1991, the US remains the world's most powerful nation state. The economy is marked by steady growth, low unemployment and inflation, and rapid advances in technology."

Well, how about that? No mention at all about any "scandals" or "corruption"...have they forgotten so quickly of their recent presidential problems or their election issues?
Whee! Taboo topic! I hope I don't get caught in the cross-fire...

But yes, this is it, the US factbooks are generally not humble.
Now. Let's look at what Canada says about the United States in their factbook:

The links between our countries are deep, diverse and complex.

We share:

* A long tradition of cooperation in defending our continent and fighting for freedom.
* The world's largest trading relationship.
* A common border that stretches across 8,893 kilometers (5,526 miles) of land and three oceans.
* Stewardship of a rich and diverse environment, including 20 percent of the world's supply of fresh water in the Great Lakes.

Oh and so much more. Not one word negative or slanderous...look for yourself.

Canada's Factbook about US
I don't wish for this to reflect on Americans themselves, but the demographic of the nation is that of one at its' pinnacle. The US is powerful economically, politically, globally, and has a reputation to keep. It can't be done by being nice about neighbors and other countries, there must be a national attitude of greatness. This isn't slander, it's simply the way every other nation has done it throughout history. Now there are millions of Americans out there who are humble, open-minded people, and know that some of the things going on in that country are wrong, but the general spirit of the nation is that of pride before the fall. People know this, and speak openly and actively against it, but history is doomed to repeat itself. So, I think what we are talking about should be expected, and while it isn't right, we might take it in stride, and know that it's just a little part of a big story to come.
QUOTE(fourloves @ Jan 13 2007, 09:14 AM) *

It can't be done by being nice about neighbors and other countries, there must be a national attitude of greatness.

I agree that this is the typically the way of thinking but in actuality, the psychology is incorrect.

In my life, when I have been kind and helped others, living in a positive vibe, my life has reflected that. I have had good things come to me and people think I am "lucky".

When I have gone through a bad spot and let negativity get the better of me, it also reflects in my attitude and what happens around me. Things seem to be harder and not work as well.

I suppose the whole point I am making is that how one speaks about others, says alot about them.
You are absolutely correct Allen. I didn't mean to say it was their "official factbook"....Canada doesn't appear to have one. I wonder why?
It is however, a government site which to me was the closest thing I could find to compare.

In answer to your question as to why all these sites use the same quote?

In my opinion, (and that is all this post is meant to be because I certainly would never claim to know all the "facts" or write a book about them) people give alot of credibility to authority and government agencies especically when they are unfamiliar with a country. So they were looking for facts and what a better place to find them but a government run "world factbook". I imagine they got their quotes from that site. I highly doubt the CIA would take the quote from somewhere else...they are the "intelligence" are they not? So why would they need to quote anyone for their facts?

That said, perhaps these other sites use the quote because they like how it sounds. Why do people grip onto a certain piece of info? Because it does something for them. It seems to me that in general people believe what they want to believe. True or not. They make it THIER truth.

It's great to have a law student here on the site! What a wealth of info you are and I will remember that for future debates.

Thanks for your honest opinions smile.gif This thread certainly has got me thinking and I appreciate having so many different views to consider.
Allen, I really must apologise for having made untrue statements. Obviously, the US governement has absoloutely no corruption, is the perfect model for a free and strong country, and we should continue to give this gift of democracy to ther countries. The media is absolutely true, free of error, and entriely reliable for the dissemination of factual information. George Bush is the best president who has ever lived, and it it only going to continue to get better. Also, there is no "fall" coming, and we should all be happy and healthy, with smiling faces in our perfect capitalist houses, cars, jobs, and toys that are our god-given right.

Also, my mistake about the use of the phrase 'history repeats itself" was absoluely incorrect, as there is no way that it could be some sort of literary device meaning the exact same thing as "people don't use history as a guide to keep them from repeating their mistakes."

All of the errors were clearly mine, and I am satisfied to call this now case closed.
Actually, I totally agree with the world factbook on that one.

Our government did face huge questions about integrity in government! The sponsorship scandal lead directly to the rise of the conservative government, ending a long-standing liberal sweep.

And you could certainly argue that separatists in Quebec have been capitalizing on it. I would say that this was a well-balanced statement, especially if you listen to some of the talk shows in Montreal around the time of the scandal, and since.

Hello, Bloc??? The liberals didn't loose seats to the conservatives in Quebec, they lost them to the Bloc Quebecois.
Interestingly enough, shortly after this post, the CIA World Factbook CHANGED their facts. It now reads:

"A land of vast distances and rich natural resources, Canada became a self-governing dominion in 1867 while retaining ties to the British crown. Economically and technologically the nation has developed in parallel with the US, its neighbor to the south across an unfortified border. Canada faces the political challenges of meeting public demands for quality improvements in health care and education services, as well as responding to separatist's concerns in predominantly francophone Quebec. Canada also aims to develop its diverse energy resources while maintaining its commitment to the environment."

I guess the person who writes the facts was in a better mood as the tone seems to have changed.
Its more likely that they are monitoring these forums.
QUOTE(siscri @ Jan 27 2007, 09:58 AM) *

Its more likely that they are monitoring these forums.

Yeah, that was my first thought as well. They're watching us....
hahaha I seems like it would be pretty man-power intensive...more likely they have some massive computer that just searches all the threads for key words like

"islam", "hate the US government" etc

guess we're on their lists now! (hahaha)
guess we're on their lists now! (hahaha)

You guys bringing in the spies?? fear.png
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