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salemk
This is some of the main reasons I will never go back to Indonesia.
1) 99% of indonesians I encountered are out to scam & rip you off. I think I found 2 people that were not trying to take my money in some way.
One scam I came across was being asked to pay extra for bag insurance after I had already paid for my bus ticket. I was stuck knowing it was a scam and not having a choice. If I say no will they make sure my bag disappears? If I pay I'm only reinforcing their continued scamming of tourist, backpackers & visitors.
Bali was the worse. Everyone charging X5 what the price should have been. So if you start the bargaining at 1/2 the asking price they are already ripping you off.
Sunglass are $2
Swimware $2
2 tank SCUBA dives $25
The more I think about Indonesia the more I hate it.
I was on one island, Labuhanbajo where we had people sleeping outside our rooms so they could follow us around all day to sell us anything like, Airplane tickets, Komodo Dragon tours on Rinka, which you don't need because the admission price covers a guide at the park. Buss tickets. Anything, it sucked and we finally had to be rude to them and tell them to get away from us. It ruined that island's appeal for everyone.
2) They will hassle & hassle you until you have to yell no to them.
3) All the taxis will honk at you when driving by to see if you need a taxi. Even if the 3 cars in front of them are taxis and all of them honked at you.
4) Arack, the local rice wine or moonshine will make you crazy. They put all kinds of things in their alcohol that is harmful if digested. Even in the local vodka, gin, rum, etc.
There is more but I'm going to stop as it is already pissing me off.
wakingdream
I hear you in a way though I think I take all that alot more lightheartedly than you. You have to remember not to take those kinds of things personally. Put yourself in their shoes. Many people over there are extremely poor, so it explains their rather abrupt and sometimes rude way of trying to get a buck out of you. Would you not do whatever it took to support your family? You just have to roll with it. There are many countries like that.

I think to say you "hate" the country is using too strong a word. It sounds like you were super-frustrated by what you encountered, which I totally understand. But hey, travel teaches us many things. Chalk it up to a learning experience. I quite enjoyed my time in Indonesia. I met many lovely people. Sure there were loads of folks trying to get me to spend in one way or another - and yeah, it can be really irritating - but I just tried to keep things in perspective. Sorry you had such a lousy experience.
ScottWoz
Having just read you're lovely signature ('Step outside your protective shell.. etc, etc.') and how it clearly fails to coincide with your attitude towards your recent experience in the vast wonder that is Indonesia, I can't help but think maybe you shouldn't have even gone in the first place.

'99% of Indonesians are out to scam and rip you off'. Is that honestly your conclusion?
salemk
Thank you wakingdream, your are very correct. I've even considered the fact that I spent 3 months in Thailand just prior to visiting Indonesia and they seamed much less interested in ripping me off & more interested in helping in any way they could. But this topic was for me to vent about most of the indonesia I saw.
Denpasar
Kubu
Kuta
Kotabangun
Labuhanbajo
Lombok
Malay Archipelago
Pulau Derawan = Great place. Loved it here.
Mancong
Pulau Terawangan
Samarinda
Rinca

As for Scott's comment I would like to draw him a picture, in crayon.
1) "Step out of your protective shell" I did and in doing so experienced some amazing things and some not very pleasant things. Indonesia being 2nd on that list.
2) "look around, are you happy with what you see"? this refers to anywhere you are wether or not you are in your home town/country. Its ment to start the wheels turning on what & how one could make them self's happier.
3) "There is much more to life, get out and travel." I'm sure even scott knows this one & I should not have to explain further.

So Scott if your still not clear on my signature's meaning or think it means something about how I'm suppose to enjoy everywhere and not b!$@% if I feel like it, then please reword how you think my signature is not concise with the bias ranting of Indonesia I posted.
But thank you for calling it lovely, that was sweet of you hyper.gif

I would like to add for the benefit of anyone reading this that, these are my words, feelings and even I call it bias & ranting. This in no way makes it true about Indonesia & I'm sure a lot of people will not agree with my ranting.
Have a great day.
Salem
sianeth
QUOTE(wakingdream @ Sep 6 2009, 03:52 PM) *

I hear you in a way though I think I take all that alot more lightheartedly than you. You have to remember not to take those kinds of things personally. Put yourself in their shoes. Many people over there are extremely poor, so it explains their rather abrupt and sometimes rude way of trying to get a buck out of you. Would you not do whatever it took to support your family? You just have to roll with it. There are many countries like that.


I agree - I fully understand where you're coming from on most of these things, but A ) I don't think they're unique to Indonesia, and B ) Sometimes you just have to laugh about things, otherwise you'll end up crying, or being royally hacked off, in your case.

What did you think of Indonesia minus the people?
travelmonster
QUOTE(salemk @ Sep 6 2009, 01:59 AM) *

This is one of the main reasons I will never go back to Indonesia.
1) 99% of indonesians are out to scam & rip you off. I think I found 2 people that were not trying to take my money in some way.
One scam I came across was being asked to pay extra for bag insurance after I had already paid for my bus ticket. I was stuck knowing it was a scam and not having a choice. If I say no will they make sure my bag disappears. If I pay I'm only reinforcing their continued scamming of tourist.
Bali was the worse. Everyone charging X5 what the price should have been. So if you start the bargaining at 1/2 the asking price they are already ripping you off.
Sunglass are $2
Swimware $2
2 tank SCUBA dives $25
The more I think about Indonesia the more I hate it.
I was on one island, Labuhanbajo where we had people sleeping outside our rooms so they could follow us around all day to sell us something or anything. Airplane tickets, Komodo Dragon tours on Rinka, which you don't need because the admission price covers a guide at the park. Buss tickets. Anything, it sucked and we finally had to be rude to them and tell them to get away from us. It ruined that island.
2) They will hassle & hassle you until you have to yell no to them.
3) All the taxis will honk at you when driving by to see if you need a taxi. Even if the 3 cars in front of them are taxis and all of them honked at you.
4) Arack, the local rice wine or moonshine will make you crazy. They put all kinds of things in their alcohol that is harmful if digested. Even in the local vodka, gin, rum, etc.
There is more but I'm going to stop as it is already pissing me off.




This is all down to your perspective.

The reason many people travel is to see and experience new and different cultures - it is what it is.

salemk
Wow.
I'll need to take you through this one step at a time for bali-balinese girl. It seams I've upset bali-balinese & she has every right to be, & every right to defend her country.

1) As for you, your family or anyone I have not meet, I can not comment about and that includes people from Amed.

2) I'm sure almost every person in the whole world knows there are "blacksheeps" in every country. So stating the obvious is asinine in this case. Asking me to travel or read more to experience this is a week attempt to justify or lessen your people's role in ripping off visitors. Drawing attention to other countries problems does not make you right and is what we call passing the blame. We are talking about Indonesia.

3) There is no need to attempt to inform me about the rules, joys or customs of bargaining. I've have lived in many countries, grown up and experienced it as a way of life. Your statement "Bargaining is a universal knowledge" is untrue but beside the point. Assuming my stupidity in bargaining, or bartering, dickering & haggling. I will answer your question. Yes I do know "this don't happen in Indonesia only".

4) My words about Thailand are "seamed much less interested in ripping me off & more interested in helping in any way they could. But this topic was for me to vent about most of the indonesia I saw."
Again you are passing the blame or pointing the finger. Nether of these make your country look better or excuse it for happening.

5) I'm "too sp0ilt (spelling changed by me for reason bellow), arrogant and pampered" these are your words because I do not understand the stupidity of your taxi drivers. I say stupidity because if the 3 taxies directly in front of him honked at me (anyone) asking if I wanted a taxi and I did not, then why would I decide that when the 4th taxi honked I (anyone) would change their mind.
The fact that you have never heard anyone else b!$@% about this & are amazed it could irritate anyone is a obvious point to your own stupidity.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results. "
-Benjamin Franklin

6) "Araks(The local wine):
Dude, for your information, our local wine is purely rice wine or coconut wine. There's no other weird ingredients in it like what you think." (your words & further proof of your ignorance)

I did not need to look any farther back then 4 months ago to find the newest deaths caused by your alcohol. This is from the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8079531.stm
"Tuesday, 2 June 2009 18:05 UK
More alcohol deaths in Indonesia
This brings to at least 23 the total number of such deaths over the past two weeks in Bali and Lombok. (the count went up to 25 dead latter that week)
Victims are said to have drunk arak, a rice or palm wine, tainted with methanol.
Methanol, also known as wood alcohol, is used in rural Indonesia as a fuel for lanterns. Even a tiny amount in the human body is highly dangerous."

7) I'm not offended by your people. I give respect to every country even before experiencing them, because it would be ignorant for me to make any decisions without seeing it for my self. I have never thought of myself as a king or better then anyone else because of my nationality or many other reasons.
As for your many comments & attempts at belittling me like this one, "I can only say that you're too cocky, full of yourself, spoint and arrogant." I only see them as childish, uninformed & immature.

Twice now you've used the word "sp0int" (spelling changed by me for reason bellow) instead of the correct word "stupid or spoiled". Please, next time you want to call someone stupid or spoiled at least know how to spell it or ask. It will make you look a little less stupid & ignorant, which I have called you a few times above.
You should see what "sp0int" (spelling changed by me for reason bellow) means. I'm sure it is not allowed in this forum. Here is the link: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Spoint
laorfamily
I take more offence to my bank charging extra do-nothing-fees than to a merchant trying to make a profit.

But that's just me...
salemk
Thats fine, anyone else can see what I'm talking about and see what your talking about for them self's.
Two last things, 1) please read it a few times so it might sink into your head a little better then the last few times.
"I think I found 2 people that were not trying to take my money in some way." As with so much else of what I've said you have not been able to understand.
2) Know what you are talking about and follow this link so you don't make the same mistakes again. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Spoint
jeremystravels
A lot of that, especially what salesmen do to get your money, sounds very similar to Egypt. You just have to ignore it and still try to have a good time. If you go in expecting people to hassle you because you are a tourist and have money, you will enjoy it better. The touts and taxis were annoying in Egypt, yes, but it didn't ruin my trip at all and only gave me a headache once [Khan el-khalili Bazaar, which is to be expected]
littlekate
Dear Bali-Balinese,
Please, do not take offence. People like some things and dislike other ones, especially when they go out of their protective shells thats natural! That's life! You need special training to feel comfortable even when lying on the broken glass. As for myself, I do not live in the best place on Earth among the best behaved people, but I can not help loving them. Id not be offended if someone finds Russia unpleasant now I know there are better places on Earth. Once I could not understand why foreigners find Russians sever now I know, they really ARE SEVER, compare to others, of course.
wakingdream
QUOTE(jeremystravels @ Sep 9 2009, 09:41 PM) *

A lot of that, especially what salesmen do to get your money, sounds very similar to Egypt. You just have to ignore it and still try to have a good time. If you go in expecting people to hassle you because you are a tourist and have money, you will enjoy it better. The touts and taxis were annoying in Egypt, yes, but it didn't ruin my trip at all and only gave me a headache once [Khan el-khalili Bazaar, which is to be expected]

I agree. If you allow something like that to make you "hate" a place, you are ripping yourself off. Truthfully, no one cares if you're there or not, so just have a good time and don't let annoyances cloud your vision so much so that you end up missing most of what could have been a phenomenal experience.
kur4m4
IMHO I think you should both just agree to disagree because you obviously ahve two completely different views of Indonesia and it seems to me that althou you try to keep it polite it is getting a bit agressive...

I have never been to indonesia so I can't comment on either opinions, Wayfarer was just giving his opinion of the country, every one is entitled to one! I can understand that it might upset you bali-balinese but replying to his post with some mild insults is no way to prove a point and if anything it will only undermine your opinion.

introducinlyric
QUOTE(kur4m4 @ Sep 10 2009, 09:43 AM) *

IMHO I think you should both just agree to disagree because you obviously ahve two completely different views of Indonesia and it seems to me that althou you try to keep it polite it is getting a bit agressive...




well said!!!!

this reminds of that saying "if you havent got anything nice to say dont say anything at all"
honestly it's far too hostile in this thread and for someone to throw around the word "hate" over such little things that are stated above speaks volumns.....
i mean really.... why get all stressed out and pour energy into something so trivial ?? you didn't like it there thats cool move on.... there's no need to generalize and make sweeping statements such as "why i hate indonesia so much......."

having a rant is fine and all, we all have our likes and dislikes but its how one goes about doing so that usually causes strong reactions. my only question would be why adopt a condescending tone to your responses to other replies...but i say this rhetorically as i dont want it answered for fear of this sillyness being prolonged any further


this thread should be closed i would do it but i'll leave that for louise -
I guess now whats been said is said rant is over ....its done .no need to beat a dead horse so to speak or cause further aggressive tension/hositility
wakingdream
I agree. I think it can be good to hear other people's opinions but there's a point where it starts going nowhere. Hopefully some good points were made and maybe it will help other travelers realize that even though there can be some very hard things to deal with on the road, there is always a flip side to everything. A positive outlook can be your best friend.
salemk
Thanks to all for their replies. I am sorry for the direction this forum took as it was not my intention for it to get hostile.
Normally I would agree with introducinlyric and try to leave the negative behind, but I do feel that this site is not just for positive topics.
For some reason I thought it would be a good topic. That did not turn out great.
Since it has not produced anything useful or productive I have not problem with it being closed.
introducinlyric
QUOTE(salemk @ Sep 10 2009, 12:59 PM) *

Normally I would agree with introducinlyric and try to leave the negative behind, but I do feel that this site is not just for positive topics.
For some reason I thought it would be a good topic. That did not turn out great.


I agree with the abovementioned - this site does have both positive and negative topics as , like i said before we all have our likes and dislikes it's part of the human condition. my only issue wasn't with the content of your post but the title of the thread - which i should have clarified in my previous post.
sadly things did snowball out of control but things have settled now and thats the main thing smile.gif

i hope this thread and people's reactions do not put you off from being an active member in these forums as we welcome new members and we are a friendly bunch party.gif

Gerre



salemk
Thank you Rolling Stone.
The title was on the harsh side. My feelings got the better of me in this case and I need to be open to more lifestyles.
Saying that I hate a whole country was wrong, based on the reasons I've listed above was small minded of me and only based on a single visit.
Any other visitors should please take this into consideration.
martymellway
99% of indonesians... thats a pretty general statement for a country with thousands of islands and unique cultures.How much of the country did you visit? I would have to agree, bali and lombok are tourist destinations and therfore people have made it there buisness to profit from that. Thats not to be blamed on the indonesians or balinese. Did you go anywhere else is indonesia? Java and Sumatra aside from a few hot spots are not all that touristy and you wont get so baddly ripped off. And if your curious as to why indonesians tend to rip of more than thai people just look at how much less developed indonesia is. People are very poor there and have right reason to try to get every penny they can from the people who have enough freedom to just amble through there country and see the sights. So next time you get ripped off just laugh it off and if you dont like the hassle don't travel because thats the way it is. Indonesia is a beautiful and diverse country worthy of praise and I think everyone should go.
salemk
QUOTE(martymellway @ Sep 15 2009, 05:17 PM) *

99% of indonesians... thats a pretty general statement for a country with thousands of islands and unique cultures.How much of the country did you visit? I would have to agree, bali and lombok are tourist destinations and therfore people have made it there buisness to profit from that. Thats not to be blamed on the indonesians or balinese. Did you go anywhere else is indonesia? Java and Sumatra aside from a few hot spots are not all that touristy and you wont get so baddly ripped off. And if your curious as to why indonesians tend to rip of more than thai people just look at how much less developed indonesia is. People are very poor there and have right reason to try to get every penny they can from the people who have enough freedom to just amble through there country and see the sights. So next time you get ripped off just laugh it off and if you dont like the hassle don't travel because thats the way it is. Indonesia is a beautiful and diverse country worthy of praise and I think everyone should go.


My locations were posted earlier in this thread. You should look for yourself.
Just because someone is poor doesn't make it right to rip others off.
I've visited 56 cities in 13 countries for months at a time, I've never had a problem with hassling, so for you to tell me or any other person not to travel if hassling gets on their nerves is wrong in my opinion. I'll be in Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama & Colombia for around a month in each this next trip I'm taking. Thats 9 more countries to add to my 13 I already have. This makes my option something others might care to hear weather its bias or honest.
Thank you for your opinion, but I'm still entitled to mine.
wakingdream
QUOTE
Just because someone is poor doesn't make it right to rip others off.


I won't argue about anything else b/c frankly there's just no point, but I will always stand up for those much less fortunate then us pampered little souls. I don't think it's about a 'right' for anything. I think it's about you being given the opportunity to understand why certain things happen in the world and quite frankly it seems you don't have the time of day for that. That's really too bad. Good luck in those other countries. I'm sure you will find many places where people will try to rip you off constantly. And that is my opinion and that's the last one I will share in this thread.
kur4m4
could someone please close this topic now? smile.gif I think there was enough arguing already and all the points to be made have been made, so end of discussion, period.

Lets debate about something else in some other post people!
ScottWoz
Good timing, that saves me from breaking my promise to myself and posting once more in response to such .....

Ok, thread closed.
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