New York
Bruni readers to New York: Take it from tourists, end tipping
answers.com
Sep 23, 2008

Frank Bruni riled his commenters on Diner's Journal yesterday when he called for solutions to the tourist tipping conundrum: What can a restaurant do when foreign tourists don't (or under) tip? Bruni holds back his own opinion ("I’m not going to try to convince management of anything"). But while foreign travelers aren't going away, an overwhelming number of readers wants to rid America of tipping. Confrontation, printed instructions, and included service charges also had votes. Below, some choice comments:

• "Having confronted a group of foul-mouthed Englishmen at a bar last month over their paltry $1 tip on $30 of drinks, I think it’s safe to say that nearly all European tourists do in fact know that tipping is customary and expected in this country."

• "Actually tipping is another one of those nasty American habits that justifies slave labor wages ... Although we as an American family tip ... we only go to places that are owned by our friends or to places that do not expect a tip, 99% of the time."

• "If you have a good, professional staff … I think it is entirely appropriate for the management to confront lousy tippers."

• "I see no reason to have to leave a $40 tip on a $200 meal when the service has been mediocre at best, and the majority of the tab is from getting an already-marked-up bottle of wine."

• "Maybe it’s about time to just add 15% to the bill as a service charge, as they do throughout most of Europe."

• "One does not tip in China — and the service is fine."

• "Confront your Boss to pay you real wages, stop disturbing your customers, who have already left legal tips, and get a real job!"

• "As a server, I’ve given up on the niceties and simply add it onto the check (post-tax) and inform the diner that the gratuity has been added. After all, I’m there for the money, not to make friends."

What do you think about tipping?

Sound advice in any industry

It's a ridiculous practice, and I agree with many of the points above. Why should I pay for someone to beam a false smile at me and behave pretentiously? If you can't give good service naturally then maybe in you're in the wrong job. Obviously this is NOT against the employee, hence the reason I say it's a ridiculous 'practice'. So to the real point: pay your staff properly, look after them properly and you might get a genuine work ethic, not one that's driven backwardly through false pretence.

But then I am European.

As for 'it's entirely appropriate for the management to confront lousy tippers'.. yeah, let's see how far that goes..

Oh and don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying I don't tip - I behave appropriately wherever I am and whatever country I'm in - I'm just saying it's a ridiculous practice..

I too think it's a ridiculous practice. Employers should be paying the wages.

In the UK we rarely tip in restaurants anymore - we used to, but then we realised we were just doing it out of habit and were actually at times tipping dreadful service. In the UK everyone gets a minimum hourly rate, so in the restaurant industry they get paid just as much as a young office worker or any other kind of employment, so I don't really see why you should give someone extra for doing their job.

There have been times when someone has gone over and above their job and actually added to our evening - not in a false way, but just because they are genuine people, so on those occasions we do tip, but I won't do it automatically.

Of course I realise that minimum wage isn't something a lot of countries benefit from and do realise that in some countries that is how people earn their money and so then - yes - I will tip, but it doesn't make it right. People should be being paid a fair price for their labour from their employer.

If I go out to a restaurant in the UK I pretty much always tip 10%. If the service has been terrible then I'll tip nothing. Likewise if the service is better than normal I'll tip 15%.

Tipping should be optional and up to the individual to decide if it is merited. When it is imposed/expected it no longer becomes a tip and is basically an added tax.

I've heard from people that had management come over to their table whilst in USA and talk them through how much to tip. I'd have walked out if that happened to me. On a flight to USA there was a pullout guide to tipping in the inflight magazine!

Tipping bartenders was a bit weird too. That never happens in the UK and I don't see why I should tip someone 20% for opening a bottle of beer.

I don't believe in tipping at all- not as an expected thing. I'd rather tip nothing for poor/ average service, then tip properly when 25% when you get excellent service.

In restaurants it's simple they should charge you what it costs to provide you a meal with their labour and overheads included.

In bars- I would never tip as a standard practice, however when I get exceptional service I buy the barman a drink. That in the UK isn't expected from the barman but it's certainly not an uncommon practice for them to get drinks bought for them.

It's a poor sign of society when to receive good service you have to pay extra, and even worse that someone does their job properly they expect you to pay over the odds for it.

I'll add I've worked in a bar before- and though it was nice to receive a few tips- it was certainly not a factor in how i'd serve anyone, and no one I knew expected to take extra money home.

Coincidentally, I was talking about this just last night, and this is the conclusion that I came to. While tipping is a stupid way to justify less than minimum wage jobs, it's up to (what I'm assuming are) uneducated and unskilled workers to come together and demand fair wages.

I went to school so that I wouldn't have to be a waitress anymore, I'm sure that's the same reason why most other people do too. So, I don't think it's my responsibility to demand fair wages for them, although I would support them with their effort.

Does that make sense?

For now though, I believe that the restaurant should simply add the tip to the end of the bill, I would be quite happy with that. After a nice meal out, the last thing I want to do is debate the so-called merits of the wait staff at the venue, or the plight of less than minimum wage workers.

Also, when I've had a couple of beers, the last thing I want to do is calculate percentages. (Yeah yeah I know, in Ontario the tip is supposed to be the same as tax, but still...)

Oh and maybe something you didn't know! In Quebec, the wait staff have to actually pay tax on the tips they are expected to earn, so they WILL chase you down if you don't give them enough. I am speaking from experience.

You have to be joking right?

Yeah, tongue in cheek a little. But really, they should organize.

Hmmm...interesting topic. I tip an appropriate amount depending on what country I'm in. That said, I wouldn't mind an overhall on the tipping practices in the U.S. By and large, customer service is much worse here in the U.S. than anywhere else I've been, yet 15-20% tip is still expected. Perhaps if servers are paid better to begin with they might give a damn about the customers, but I dunno. [shrug]

Goodness, I've opened a Pandora's Box here.

To my mind the whole system is exacerbated by restaurant and bar owners wanting to profit by paying wait staff considerably below minimum wage (permitted in the USA) and expecting the patron to pay the balance. It's something that will be extremely difficult to change because as Americans tend to grossly over tip, restaurant staff usually ends up earning more than minimum wage. In fact many university students are surprised when they start work in their profession and find they are earning substantially less than when they were a waiter or bartender.

When my nephew came over to visit us last year, he got a temp job as a waiter in the local greasy spoon cafe (illegally to boot). He is quite a character, and usually ended his day with around US$ 100.00 in tips alone. He was devastated when his visa ran out and he had to go home. He was very amused that some of his best tippers were the immigration and customs officials from the nearby airport. I hear wait staff on South Beach can take home as much as US$ 500.00 a day. Who would want to follow a profession if you can earn this by just bringing a plate of food to a table without dropping it all over the customer.

Hmmm, yeah that's true, I was just thinking about my past experience. Working with crap wages and even crappier tips drove me out of the hospitality business (at least that end of it) ... so I was glad to get out of there and go to school. All the people that I worked with were grossly under-educated and under-paid. (This is in Niagara Falls)

So you're right, it depends where you are working.

I tip people. I don't like doing it though.

It's not that I'm tightfisted (although, I am), it's more the fact that I don't see why I should pay money to people for doing their job correctly.

I realise though that people (especially in the states) are paid a pittance and depend on them, so in that case I happily pay them a tip. Although it should be the company who pay them decently, as mentioned before in this thread.

In NYC, it's always 15%-20%. Some resturants I've been to, automatically added 25% to the bill for tip.
If they were to pay the employee's more, the prices on the menu may go up as well. So it'll just even itself out now since that money was going to go as a tip anyway.

A few rare resturants I've been to broke down the percentage for me at the bottom. Gave me a total of 15, 20, and 25% from my bill and I could choose if I wanted to tip any amount from the examples they gave me.

At least in nyc, you ALWAYS tip nomatter how bad the service is. Even if you tip low, it gives them the hint the service was bad.

Oooh, I like that idea of examples...which restaurant was that? A fancy one?

Not necessarily a fancy restaurant, just an intelligent one. It's pretty easy to programme the three tipping levels on the receipt. Using the info as a guide, you then add the appropriate tip as you would normally do when signing your CC receipt.

There was another awesome thread on this topic awhile back. I think the conclusion was that the industry needs to wipe the dust off these crappy wages and pay up! I worked as a bartender for ten plus years and had to rely on tips to make a decent living. I tip where it's appropriate and don't when it's not. Simple as that. I don't tip for lousy service. To Insure Prompt Service is what it stands for, but I expect a little more than just promptness. Jer used to always tell me I tipped way too much but it was because I knew what it was like to have to sling beers to a bunch of drunks or slave away at a restaurant. Overworked and underpaid. I can't stand when tips are included automatically. For those from countries where tipping is a normal practice, tipping is just something inherent. I can see why people from countries who don't tip think it's ridiculous. But, compare the wages between the two. Often there's a mighty difference.

I'm not sure about that one. I've only worked at crappy restaurants, and I made $5.25/hour. It was a better wage than working at Burger King, however.

I agree with you tripledot, that is pretty ridiculous if those waitresses at fancier restaurants make the same amount.

Not at all. I've tipped atleast $40 on a fancy meal for two. That gal would be cleaning up even if she did it for free.

That's the point. At a fancy restaurant, you shouldn't have to tip so much. You're paying a lot extra for good food and service. The costs should trickle down to the waitstaff.

I went to this restaurant the other night, and there were quite a few of us, so we left a £20 tip. As we were leaving, the waitress said to us, don't bother tipping because we won't get it, it just goes to the manager... so we kept it and left! I wonder how many other places are like that!

Or in same cases like a bar. Everyone splits the tips at the end of the night.

No kidding, Sian! I thought that was the case in Europe in general...

Oh!! Well there goes me never leaving a tip again lol!

Amen..

Wha? Am I misinformed?

I'm now running a bar- we do the works on service- it's good- and i'm not just saying that it is, and any tips go straight into persons pocket. I even let staff drink- if it's bought for by the customer.

That's in England. Is it usual that people tip in England?

A number of people seem to.

People do tip in England- main things a meal or a taxi.

In pubs and bars it's not expected but happens- you normally get drinks bought for you, when I worked in a nightclub you'd make aprox £15 a night on tips.

In a NYC club.. You can make hundreds of dollars in tips just for you in one night

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. All they do is pour liquids into glasses...they don't even have to come to your table...

They might do in England but it's for VERY different reasons. I do despise this whole 'it's to be expected or you'll get ridiculed' thing in the States. It's for that reason alone that I simply won't. But then I am a shameless non-conformist.

Glad you're letting the staff have a brew Barsie, that's the way. Screw the norm. Good lad. Hope the bar's going mental mate..

Well if your getting a table in a NYC club then that will cost you a few hundred dollars. And it's usually poured by a really attractive half-naked female. So when your drunk.. some the guys feel like they get a chance by tipping more. Heck, I'll admit.. When I first started drinking and became of legal age and a really attractive female is extremely nice to me - I feel like tipping more too.. It's like a super power they had and since I was new to tipping, I just gave them whatever.

A Grey Goose usually costs $35 in a store.. In a NYC club - it costs $300...

Mate really, is that the mentality? Still?

Unfortunately over here guys have big egos when they have money.

Tipping in resturants is a totally different math and normally calculated from good service though. I'm only basing what i said on nightlife tipping.

I'm highly against high tips in these music venues with 300% profit on alcohol. Takes away the meaning of the music and draws in a terriable crowd. There have been a few places where alcohol was not served at all but the places never lasted long and drugs started to take over.

lol one last note.. i dont have that mentality. i'm really passionate about music. i really really hate the crowd that goes to clubs or concerts only to pick up girls. i'm usually too busy dancing to care about whats going on around me.

I know you don't have that mentality, which is why I asked. Still makes me smile though how a great majority can be such sorry excuses for human beings..

I used to get tips, even at Burger King because I was always smiley and nice. (Oh and also, we were located right next to the casino)

Sometimes people just have way too much money.

How does everyone feel about tipping in a Casino?

For what? What am I getting for my money?

LOL!! exactly! The dealer doesn't make the odds so I never understood the reason behind tipping in a casino.

I could never do that job. Looking everyone throwing away thousands in a single card and yet there I am making minimum wage. The amount some spend would take years to earn as a dealer.

You definitely DO NOT make minimum wage as a casino dealer, not in Canada anyway.

One of my good friends dealt black jack, it was a great wage, benefits etc. etc.

I don't like tipping anywhere - employers should be paying wages.

So, new question... is it worse to leave no tip, or a really really small insulting tip? Cause if I have coppers then its a good way to get rid of them, but apparently thats cheeky!

When I was a waitress, I never thought it was mean to leave a small tip, but I think I'm in the minority.

What about Taxi drivers, hair dressers, gas station attendants, fast food workers baristas grocery clerks, retail workers and oh, I don't know, every other service industry slave working for too little. Why single out wait staff for this special bounty. If you don't tip everybody, it seems silly to feel obligated to make all your societally imposed donations to this one sub group.

Excellent point. Just pay people properly for doing the work they do. Simple.

Because waitresses don't even make minimum wage. At least these people make minimum wage.

Waiters at bars and restaurants on South Beach, Miami, can make up to US$ 500.00 a day. Is it any more work to bring a $ 5.00 hamburger and fries to the table at the local diner or a $ 50.00 wine-poached salmon with black truffles? It's not as if the waiter is preparing the food or paying the rent. It just a job of carrying a plate from the kitchen to the table. What's the big deal? So based on a 15% tip, why should Joe at the diner earn $ 0.75 and Marcel at the swanky French restaurant earn $ 7.50 for the same task?

What annoys me most is when you are expected to include the cost of wine in the tip. For the life of me I can't see increasing a tip for more expensive wine. It's just a bottle, damn it!

The whole tipping thing is a can of worms. Restaurants should be obliged to pay at least minimum wage to all their employees, and the tipping thing should just pass away like a bad dream.