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[introducinlyric]

i found this highly interesting article below


"It's not often you find somewhere so grotty that you're moved to take a photo of it.

I've taken plenty of snaps of beautiful mountains, boring sunsets, and accidental close-ups of my own face, but I've only rarely thought it necessary to take a picture of something on pure dirtiness alone, just so I can prove it really exists when I get home.

But that was the case when I saw this scene while wondering through the Indian town of Agra. India-wise, Agra's not exactly head-and-shoulders above the rest in the grottiness stakes, but it says something when you've been in the country a solid month and are still amazed at just how disgusting a place can look.

It says so much about the contradictions of India that a place could be home to both one of the most beautiful structures in the world, and also the most disgusting about two kilometres away.

So to Agra, I bestow my Golden Garbage Can award.

It was this story that got me thinking about the dirty, disgusting cities of the world. Naples might be known for its great pizza, but it's also known for its ridiculous garbage problem, something no doubt exacerbated by the local mafia's control over the garbage disposal. The result is that, for all its good points, Naples is a bit of a hell-hole.

But that's the thing about grot - it doesn't have to be a bad thing. In fact, I think a bit of grot goes a long way. Grot shows that a country or a city has soul. I'd much rather hang out in, say, Phnom Penh than Singapore, or Cairo than Dubai. And anyone who's visited the sub-continent will know that although you have to hold your breath every now and then, the payback is enormous. (I was in Jodhpur once, and was about to step over a reeking open drain when I saw another tourist holding his nose as he did the same thing. "Ah, the smell of India," he said as he hopped across.)

So don't take the Golden Garbage Can as too much of a slight.

London may not be grotty in the "bits of garbage lying around the place" sense, but try giving it the old thong test. (Work with me here.) Spend a day walking around the city in thongs, and then take them off. You'll see a nice white mark where the straps have been sitting, while the rest of your foot will be black. It's almost as bad as Oxford St.

In China, you can pretty much take your pick for grotty spots (although Linfen was named by Time in its list of the 10 most polluted places on Earth). Smog seems to hang low over every city, while rubbish often lines the streets.

Cambodia has the same problem, although on a much smaller scale. The pavements of Phnom Penh are cracking, while Siem Reap is strewn with the sort of detritus that comes with a lot of tourists and very little infrastructure. Fortunately, the temples of Angkor are kept spotlessly clean.

Uganda's bulging at the seams with grot, although in quite a lovable way. Strolling around Kampala is like stepping back into a much dirtier version of the '80s, clothing included. The markets are full of as much trash as they are treasure, but that's what the place is all about.

In Europe you would assume a certain level of cleanliness, but you don't always get it. Barcelona is a prime example. While the city centre is kept relatively tidy, step outside of that and you'd think you'd entered a war zone. And my mate who once went swimming in the harbour must have had a few too many Estrellas.

Greece is pretty similar. Athens is an ancient city, which still seems to have an ancient plumbing and garbage disposal system. The place was heaving with trash when I was there, but you still couldn't help but love the place.

Another city that's pretty rough on the eye is Lima, particularly anywhere outside the tourist zone. While the Miraflores area is all spruced up and Westernised, the rest of it is smog-affected, dirty, and generally falling apart.

Sorry - I forgot to take a picture."


the article then proceeded to ask a the question


Where do you think the grottiest place on Earth is? Do you try to avoid visiting dirty destinations, or take it in your stride?

im curious to know peoples experiences and places they deem to be dirty or "grotty"

[starlagurl]

I thought that Marigot in St. Martin was pretty dirty. The smell of sewage was everywhere. I didn't find this problem on the Dutch side of the island, however.

Also, eighties-era New York City, I remember the urine puddles, as if they were yesterday *nostalgic sigh*

[travelmonster]

Maybe I am missing something, but I never think of places as grotty, I tend to think of them as different to where I am used to.

[mmbcross]

Travelmonster is so right. Every place is different, and some people just don't see grot as perhaps some of us do.

I lived for many years in Guatemala. On the whole the people of Guatemala are extremely clean, and most of the homes I saw were spotless, be they rich or poor. But outside their front door it was another story, and at times you think the whole country is submerging under garbage. They just don't see garbage the same way we do. Are they wrong or just different?

There was even a sign at one of the archeological sites asking that people throw their garbage over the cliff rather than within the ruins. No waste baskets provided at all. You can just imagine what the bottom of that cliff looked like!

My worst experience was when following a bus, a used diaper (nappy) sailed out of the window and splattered onto my windscreen. Believe me it wasn't much fun cleaning up so I could continue my trip.

[starlagurl]

Gross! How did you clean it up?!

[introducinlyric]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what may be beautiful for one person may be completely the opposite for another. Thats the beauty of travel in my opinion what appeals to people varies greatly. I think in alot of cases what would be deemed as "dirty" to alot of people actually adds character to certain places and other would be disgusted by it.

[starlagurl]

Yeah but really...poo on your windshield and urine puddles...that's pretty much universally dirty.

[mmbcross]

You are quite right Starlagurl, a windshield splattered with poop can hardly be considered beauty even for the most open minded. I get the gist of "the eye of the beholder", but I challenge anyone to convince me that a pile of garbage is beautiful.

[introducinlyric]

You are quite right Starlagurl, a windshield splattered with poop can hardly be considered beauty even for the most open minded. I get the gist of "the eye of the beholder", but I challenge anyone to convince me that a pile of garbage is beautiful.

bahahaha i wasnt referring to the poo on the windshield (that was just a gross story) lol but if you didnt get what i was saying no point in explaining it again

[travelmonster]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what may be beautiful for one person may be completely the opposite for another. Thats the beauty of travel in my opinion what appeals to people varies greatly. I think in alot of cases what would be deemed as "dirty" to alot of people actually adds character to certain places and other would be disgusted by it.

I totally agree, it truly depends on the person - and it's not just the 'dirt' thing, it's a whole experience thing. Last year I had the great fortune to spend some time in the Peruvian jungle, with at times no electricity, no running water, all sorts of insects and creepy crawlies, I was incredibly sick for 3 days and had a life threatening incident with a poisonous snake - when I came home peoples reactions were amazing - comments such as "and you paid for this?", "how awful", "sounds like a nightmare", "bet you were glad to get home" - NO is the answer, I wasn't glad to get home, it was the absolute best experience of my life to date - it taught me so many things about ways other people live and also about myself.

[mmbcross]

Though I admire your pluck to visit the Peruvian jungle off the tourist tracks, lack of electricity and running water is not really "grot". I define "grot" as grime caused by our fellow humans, be they residents or visitors, such as garbage, waste and detritus in the streets and countryside. For example grot would be the garbage such as oxygen bottles left by climbers of Everest all over the route. They just can't be bothered to bring them back down. Grot can be a simple as a car driving by your house and emptying the remains of a fast food meal and accruements on your front yard. I agree that this should not be a barrier to travel. If it was, no one would visit India or China. Nevertheless, I still cannot consider experiencing filth an edifying experience. Grot is grot the world over. It's just that some countries have more than others.

[travelmonster]

No, I wasn't saying for one second that is was "grot" in any way, quite the opposite for me - I was trying to illustrate how people see things differently.

[starlagurl]

To defend your friends though, I don't think they would've defined your experiences as "grot" either.

They just wouldn't pay for the same things you would pay for.

[travelmonster]

Mostly they were work colleagues - and they think we are completely nuts for the things we do.

But people seem to be missing the whole point of my post - I said it is not just the 'dirt' thing meaning grot, but it is also whole experiences that people see differently, but nevermind.

[bloomer]

Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but when baby poop is in the eye of the beholder, it can sting quite a bit. . .I mean. . .I heard it can. . .

Paharganj here in Delhi is pretty darn grotty, but I've stayed in some small towns in India that made this neighborhood look like Singapore!

[starlagurl]

Wow, I'd like to hear about that, Josh.

I get what you're saying, travelmonster, but I think the point of the article is the "dirt" in these places.

[travelmonster]

[introducinlyric]

[starlagurl]

Wow, that does sound like a nightmare, I hope you wrote up a review somewhere! Did you?

[mmbcross]

Do you mean a review of the lodging for Trip Advisor?