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[starlagurl]

Environmentalists say yes, and I tend to agree.

But, I've been on a few flights where there are only 10 or so people and felt guilty, but I was grateful that they did leave, because I still had two more planes to catch to get to my next destination.

How can they solve this problem? If all these flights get cancelled, it would cause complete chaos, or would it?

I know I'm mad when a bus that I am waiting for doesn't come, when I have to get to work on time, so I don't think this is so feasible...

Hmmm...

[mmbcross]

Some less reputable airlines do this already, but the word soon gets out and prospective passengers in the know will only buy air tickets on these flights as a last resort. I bet the airlines would love to do this, but for conservation of their profits, not the environment.

Indeed it would be total pandemonium if airlines did this on a regular basis. As you say, imagine all the lost connections.

If airlines see consistently a low yield, then they should cancel the whole schedule, not the particular flight. Anyway, in these days of using an aircraft 24/7, it often has to be at the destination for another onward flight, so it would have to fly anyway, even if it had no passengers at all.

I thought only in Miami we had buses that didn't turn up on time, or worse, didn't turn up at all.

[starlagurl]

Haha, no I'm sure late buses are a worldwide phenomenon.

Maybe the answer to the airplane dilemma is simply better planning... Or a scheme like Zoom that charges more as the airplane fills up. That way, you would at least have a half full airplane every time...maybe..

[findingnine]

Does the airline use less full for full flights than empty ones. How much of these flights have a lot more to do with convenience rather than necessity. Could the business be done electronically? It is 2008 after all. And mamma jamma! What about all the leisure travel. So many opportunities in many of our own backyards. (Whose home isn't a travel destination to someone else?) How big a carbon footprint does it make to travel abroad? Do the places further away have more to show us about the world and ourselves? Is it our right to make such a large impact even if they do?

OK, I'm having kind of a devils advocate week, but do these questions deserve at least some consideration also?

[charlamae]

If i owned the airline, I would make deals with the other airlines -- sometimes they take our guests, sometiems we take theirs. I'm sure that some sort of credit system could be worked out so that one airline doesn't tkae more than they give.

Of course, that would require people to get along and work for the greater good and forget about competition and such. Sigh ... there's I go talking about my utopian world again.

[findingnine]

If left to our own devices, the 'Take a Penny, Leave a Penny' cup would always be empty.

[mmbcross]

If the airlines could avoid empty flights, they would. Can you imagine how much they loose with unfilled seats? To be honest, I haven't seen an empty flight in decades. Once upon a time you could streach out with empty seats. I haven't been able to do this in years. Flights always seem packed.

As far as staying at home to avoid carbon footprints, don't hold your breath on that one. Whatever would Travelpod do if we stopped travelling? I've seen my own back yard ad nauseum. I want to see India and Africa. Regrettably, other than Busch Gardens, there is nothing that remotely compares to India or Africa in North America, so I have to fly there, probably on a flight that pack passengers in like sardines.

By the way, airlines already combine flights. Have you ever been on a "codeshare" flight where, say, you buy a ticket with Delta and find you are flying on Air Jamaica?

Cheers
Martin

[wakingdream]

There are so many people who complain about carbon footprints etc that don't bother doing much of anything to lessen theirs on a daily basis via easy methods that over time can make a really big difference.

Re: the plane, it seems to me that profit and convenience are the two leading factors and until that changes, things won't necessarily get better. Sure there are some airlines that are more environmentally conscientious than others but in the long run it's all about profitability as Martin wrote.

What about all the leisure travel. So many opportunities in many of our own backyards. (Whose home isn't a travel destination to someone else?) How big a carbon footprint does it make to travel abroad?

I totally agree but vowing never to fly overseas isn't necessarily a solution. Maybe for some I suppose but for the majority, I think we are trying to find the most affective balance. Overland travel has always been the way to go for us, but we have to get there first. So how do we lessen our carbon footprint? I am never not going to fly again but I take meaningful steps toward soothing stress on the environment everyday.

Cancelling flights that aren't full would definitely enrage people after atime, airlines would loose passengers and eventually be driven into the ground.

I think Richard Branson's got some crazy new invention going on.. a plane flying on biofuels or something. As far as I know it still impacts the environmentAirline in First Biofuel Flight but nothing like a regular plane.

It's highly controversial but who knows, maybe it's a step in the right direction. This might be the first step toward a sustainable way of flying with biofuel. Someone has to make the first move. Every invention always needs some or alot of tweaking. The bottom line is the best thing to do is stop the increasing amount of flights around the world. No doubt about it.

[findingnine]

You know I need to stir the pot a little now and again. I just feel it is easy to see how others waste for their convenience while ignoring our own compromises. I haven't had an overseas adventure, but that has more to do with an unfortunate cancellation. I will snap up the chance ASAP. Sans guilt btw. I think it is good to remind ourselves of the impact of the conveniences we have deemed necessary or justified in some other such way. I would never sincerely propose we abandon such conveniences. There is a weighing of value in all scenarios. Sometimes it has less to do with justifying our choices, and more to do with simply acknowledging them. Sure, who couldn't do more to minimize impact, but most of us give up only so much, and shift that grey line to fit. I poke when I can, but in real life the judgement stops at the property line. At least I'm not a litterbug.

[wakingdream]

You know I need to stir the pot a little now and again.

Life would be really boring if no one stirred the pot! I'm just stirring the pot a bit too but I am totally picking up what you're putting down.

I think it is good to remind ourselves of the impact of the conveniences we have deemed necessary or justified in some other such way.

Definitely. In Canada it can be the decision between plane, train or automobile right? Sure the plane will shorten your trip but there are other advantages to taking a bus or train, like scenery!

The thing is we all know that flying less is better. Many have the attitude (with many things) that well, everyone else is still doing it so what difference would I make by not flying. Or by not recycling or whatever. Knowing what's the best option and choosing that option, well, there's a bit of middle ground there. It's not subjective. Flying IS bad for the environment. Horrible.

I know there are plenty of things I shouldn't be doing, living green isn't hard per say, but it can be difficult to shift your entire lifestyle. Like the woman from the CBC who made a green change everyday for a year and is now living through some things she's not sure she can tolerate! I admire her, but I'm not sure I could switch over that easily or quickly. We all do what we can, some of us more and some of us less.

BTW I'm completely astonished when I see people chuck stuff out the car window. That still happens? Come on!!

[starlagurl]

Yes, the scenery may be nice (and yeah, I've taken the train across Canada, so I know) but the bottom line is, most people have limited vacation time. So that fuels the airline industry.

It would be nice if we all had enough leisure time to travel across land, but in a place like Canada, holy schniekies, it's HUGE, and simply unfeasible. For example, I definitely would not want my employees to travel to a business conference on the train no matter how much free internet they might get in business class. I also would not want to lug kids onto a train in coach for three days just to get to Vancouver.

*sigh*

It's so sad when practicality clashes with environmentalism.

[wakingdream]

Yes, the scenery may be nice (and yeah, I've taken the train across Canada, so I know) but the bottom line is, most people have limited vacation time. So that fuels the airline industry.

True, true and true.

It's so sad when practicality clashes with environmentalism.

And yes, sadly, true as well.

[starlagurl]

*tear*

[mmbcross]

Stretching out over four middle seats is not good for the environment. The ideal way to fly is make sure you always select a sold-out flight on a large fuel-efficient aircraft. When the flight is full, each passenger's carbon footprint is smaller.
Cheers
Martin

[sianeth]

I was pretty shocked when I saw on the news recently that the carbon output of computers is contributing more to global warming than flying! Whilst I could feasibly stop flying and avoid it as much as possible, I pretty much have to use a computer everyday for work, and so does pretty much everyone I know, and I know thats not gonna change, if anything it'll only get worse. Unless computer manufacturers are actually improving the energy efficiency of their products - which I have absolutely no idea about - then it seems to be me that there are problems other than the usual flying etc that people should be addressing more urgently.

Also, obesity is contributing greatly to the escalating global warming crisis, believe it or not!

I don't know if these means people should have less guilt about flying or not, but I just think it gets a bad press compared to alot of other things, that people aren't even aware of half the time.

[rbisset]

A lot of things are more polluting than flying, the Government just sees it as an easy target to tax! I won't stop flying and planes are getting far more efficient every year.

They want us to use more public transport but when are they going to realise flying is public transport too!

If I turned up at the airport to go on holiday and my flight had been cancelled because they hadn't sold enough seats then I would be really pissed off! When I flew to Tokyo there were about 50 people on the flight. It was great, loads of room to move around and it felt much more free than being trapped like sardines for 12 hours! On my flight back from NY I had the middle 4 seats to myself

[shaun_gooch]

If I turned up at the airport to go on holiday and my flight had been cancelled because they hadn't sold enough seats then I would be really pissed off! When I flew to Tokyo there were about 50 people on the flight. It was great, loads of room to move around and it felt much more free than being trapped like sardines for 12 hours! On my flight back from NY I had the middle 4 seats to myself

Oh yeah I'm with rbisset all the way! nuf said

[starlagurl]

Martin, how do you go about selecting a flight that is full already?

[wakingdream]

Martin, how do you go about selecting a flight that is full already?

Good question.

I've only flown a very few flights that have been fairly empty and they've all been short. I love flying and have no problem if the plane's full. I just read and read and sleep and you know, pass the time. Most of our flights have been 20+ hours which I suppose is quite bad but I don't think I'm going to beat myself up over it.

[mmbcross]

Indeed a good question. To be honest I don't know. It just seems that every flight I take is always packed to the gills these days. That's airline yield management working to their advantage. But after all, many people loose sight of the fact that taking a plane is using public transportation. The private jets are the guilty ones.

I'm very surprised about the computer. My electric bill doesn't seem to vary whether I'm using my computer or not. Does yours?

I can see why obesity increases the carbon footprint. The more weight the aircraft has to carry, the more fuel it burns..ha.ha.