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[Caro!]

So things were really bad fo women after the revolution. Dark clothes were mandatory, but how are things now??? Are women doing better under the ayatollah laws??

Caro!

[whereshegoes]

Stoning of Women in Iran

and

The PO-lice attack

These articles are not very positive.

Check here for some interesting info

Womens Forum against Fundamentalism

[kris]

my brother is currently listening to radio 4 and so i'm listening to the afternoon play, it's about a women called roxanna in iran who has to pass an annual interview at work to keep her job.. maybe there is some interesting info on that link..

[Caro!]

Thank you, I will check it out!


Caro!

[lucinate]

Just from travelling through Iran and not delving into too much off the relatively well beaten path, the women in most towns we went to wore mostly dark colours. It's a part of Islam, I believe, that tells them to wear demure colours and not be too ostentatious, not only in their dress but in their behaviour as well.

In Tehran the women dress much more fashionably. Their long coats are much, much shorter, tighter and colourful. Their scarves that they must wear by law are just lightly placed over the top of their heads with the front and rear of their hair showing. They show their ankles and wrists, wear makeup and smoke. Some even wore tight jeans! It is the capital though.

Not all women wear the chador but alot do. I did find them confident people though and they were not afraid to speak to us at all. Of course it was mostly men and younger people that we spoke to but all the same the younger generations are quite clear in what they want. They're all proud to be muslim but they want to make their own choices and have a little more freedom.

In smaller towns we did hear that women are mis-treated and still stoned so it's defintely still there but we didn't experience it. The legal age for marriage is 9 years old for girls. Yep, that's definitely a girl at that age. Personally I can't see how any man would want to have a relationship with a 9 year old.

Some women are happy to wear the hijab and darker colours and others aren't. At least it's not law that they wear the chador. Apparently two years ago even tourist women had to wear chadors! For some women it's like a security blanket too. When we walked past they'd pull it closer around them as if to shield themselves from any nasties they might catch from us.

People stared at me not only because I'm white and have blonde hair and freckles but because I was wearing a turquoise blue coat with matching headscarf!

Unemployment is incredibly high and there isn't a social welfare system. Although alot of people are university educated there are not jobs for them to apply their knowledge. We spoke to a 21 year old girl who said that women her age are thinking of their careers first and then happy to marry later. I'm sure that's not the case for everyone but at least it's there.

[Caro!]

Lucy, thank you so much for your comment, that is the kind of info I was looking for.


As for you my favorite uncle, you need to stop being so full of yourself. I KNOW you have travel a lot and I'm sure you know more than me, so that is the reason I open this forum.

About the American way, dude I'm COLOMBIAN, and just because I live in the US it doens't mean I think as many Americans do. I do appreciate you answering my comment.

My question wasn't meant to be political, I just wanted to know how women live in Iran because I'm reading a book about it and I wanted to know a different perspective of the situation.

Caro!

[Caro!]

And that is the reason you are my FAVORITE AUNTIE, because you can tell stories to your niece about places she has never visit!!!

And your niece loves it!!!!

Caro!

[Allen]

Don't confuse Turkey with other Muslim and or Arab countries. Turkish women don't wear burkhas or any of the head-to-toe coverings. Although you will see some of Turkish women dressed modestly and wearing headscarfs, this is not required, or even encouraged, and has more to do with family traditions and personal religious expression. You will more likely see Turkish women wearing stylish western clothing.

Women in Turkey are free to enjoy all the freedoms that men do, and also serve in prestigious positions in business and government. Turkey even had a woman prime minister, (1993-1995) and freedoms are guaranteed by the constitution of the Republic of Turkey.

Having spent a few tours in Turkey myself I can say that women do drive in Turkey. Where did you get the idea they did not?

http://www3.estart.com/turkey/women/ralli.html

Am I to assume that the rest of your posts are in jest as well?
To an educated person, that would seem the case.

I like to tell stories of the places I have been as well, but I don't often mix politics with talk of travel. Yet having read some of your posts in the past you seem to try and instigate as much as possible. Come to the political bin and take a shot.......I will be more than happy to discuss my experiences and politics with you.
Petition the American government?! That's a good one! Ever hear of Sharia law? (of course you would know it extends much further than 'law') Sounds fun! One can visit those places that practice this and then tell others how wonderful it is and how the women (and others) really don't mind it.
Just don't complain about it when you are actually there!

Sharia law is the instrument by which Political Islam seeks to control the Muslim world, and to radical Islam, it hopes someday
to control the entire world.

I would hardly call Saudi Arabia a good friend to anyone. To do so would be disingenuous.

Please provide the quote where Potus said we had to go into Iran to 'save' the women. I would like to hear the context, if it exisits. And please don't use the word lie if you don't know its meaning. Since I have been to more places than you, (many are not listed on my pod) am I qualified to answer in your opinion? Or are you qualified to answer back to me?

Allen

[wakingdream]

Caro, not sure which book you are reading at the moment, but I am reading a very interesting book called The Caged Virgin: An Emancipation Proclomation for Women and Islam, written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She is a Dutch member of parliament originally born into Islam in Somalia and a very admired and respected activist for women in Islam. I am very interested in the topic after spending quite a bit of time with SE Asian Muslim women.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Allen, I think you should get online and google women in Turkey. From what I have been reading, women do not enjoy the same freedoms that men do. According to the US organization, Amnesty International:

"Though Turkey has taken recent steps to bring its laws into line with international standards on human rights, severe problems remain, particularly for Turkish women. The government has passed new legislation prescribing tougher penalties for battering or abusing women, although this legislation is not widely enforced. Familial violence, including rape, murder, beatings, and enforced suicide is still prevalent".
The meaning of "prevalent" is as follows: prevalent : preferred method superior, dominant widespread. This sounds pretty oppressive to me, however, I do not claim to be any kind of expert.

This does not sound like "freedom" to me, unless "freedom" has some other meaning I am not aware about. Having a woman prime minister does not guarantee that women enjoy the same freedoms as men either. That is a naive assumption. Turkish women are GRADUALLY starting to break the from male domination, they are a far cry away from having freedoms such as many western women enjoy.

You have to realise that often things are not always as they appear on the surface, and what you see, is not really what you get in many cases. Do you get the opportunity to dig deeper into a culture on your "tours"? I doubt you have spoken to many Turkish woman about how they are treated by the men in their families. I may be wrong, but, it seems your idea of a political discussion is "I am right, and you are wrong. End of story". We all have experiences and education to share with each other. And Allen? Going to loads of countries does not automatically make you an expert on anything. It just proves that you have many stamps in your passport.

[Allen]

wakingdream

It may be a surprise to you, but I know the meaning of many words and prevalent is one of them. In my travels around Turkey I did not see the horrors that UD claims to have seen. What I am saying is that he lumped them in with all the rest of the oppressive countries. That is obviously not the case. True freedom? Where are you going to find that? (Maybe in Galt's Gulch) "Tours" does not mean what you think it does. I always get off the beaten path even if I do a day tour of a city,
etc. My many years of travel do allow me to comment.

Noun: tour tûr

1. A journey or route all the way around a particular place or area
"they took an extended tour of Europe"
- circuit

2. A time for working (after which you will be relieved by someone else)
- go, spell, turn

3. A period of time spent in military service
- enlistment, hitch, term of enlistment, tour of duty, duty tour

In case you didn't know the meaning. Just kidding. Really. There is a lot of valuable info on Travelpod. When someone like UD comes off sounding like an expert when he clearly is not, that annoys me. Well, to be truthful the annoying thing is the almost constant anti U.S. barbs he throws out. I understand why he is unwilling to get into a "petty" argument with me or anyone armed with facts and not conjecture. (A hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing, usually with little hard evidence)

If one only sees the world through their personnel experiences they are missing a lot. Saying that Turkish women are not allowed to drive is an ignorant statement. Just because someone told him so does not make it so. See the point? As far as education and boasting goes, UD claimed I or others should not comment unless they have been to where he has. Strike you as a little self-aggrandizing? Calling me uneducated, and vowing not to respond, is like a child taking his toys and going home. Too bad.

I am responding to you because he apparently won't respond to me. I believe that open discussion is a benefit to all here on the Pod. However, when one makes
unfavorable judgments on another's country, (to which he has never been)
then claims the higher ground, it is a bit irritating. By his own standards he should not make comments on a place he has never left a footprint. I won't name call here. To do so would be pedantic.

I don't often post here, but do read the forums once a week or so.
And finally....I am not in a race either. (People who say this are usually the ones with fewer visited destinations) But in this case I have said it. I have traveled overseas every year since '93 and many years before that. Countries and place pile up. I don't step off a train or dash across a border and then lug my pack around for an hour to add it to my "list". We all travel for various reasons. I have mine, others have theirs. Don't denigrate mine by a specious comment.
If anyone disagrees with my countries political stance, fine. Take it to the Bin and we can discuss it intelligently. Don't act like a child and throw out comments and then run away. I have been to many unstable areas that are on the "No Travel List" for the U.S. This means if you get into trouble there...tough luck. I have had a few sticky situations, but so far have been fortuitous enough to return home safely. I will continue to take travel risks. My next trip is to return to Venezuela and then go to Guyana, Suriname and French Guyana. Hardly a dangerous trip but there are safer destinations.

Keep on traveling and posting.

Allen

[Caro!]

I was reading "Reading Lolita in Teheran" it is a true story about women that get together to read books that are prohibited under their goverment. The book also takes you to their personal issues of being a women in Iran.

Uncle_ D about women in Pakistan not being able to drive, I just asked my friend Safia,who is pakistani, about the driving situation; she says that women in Pakistand have been drivng for over 10 years! And the only country she knows still lacks this right is South Arabia. So what it is, do they drive or they don't?

Caro!

[itsem]

hey Caro - my friend (tp-id: traceygigg) finished this book (Lolita in Tehran) and couldnt stop talking about it (she couldnt believe that Switzerland had been used as an example of western decadence) so I have just started reading it too!

[nine1011]

Hello everyone,

I have read some of your comments about women situation in the ME.

Since I'm from the area (particularly SA), please permit me to share my opinion with you.

First of all, why do you guys think that wearing certain cloths such as Hijab or long dark cloths would make women's life like hell. If anyone of you born and raised in such culture & environment, believe me, will not have that extreme rejection & misunderstanding. What may seem odd to you could mean something familiar to others. I agree that some people tend to be more liberal & wanna do it their way. However, we should all know that the majority of women like it Middle Eastern way. To prove my point, please look around you in the US at muslim women and tell me please; what do they wear? American style or Hijab?!

I believe that everyone should respect others' culture & religion, and do not escalade issues to clashes because you can't change people's belief neither their will. You can't apply your rules & way of life on others because you think you are right & they are wrong. Just let us try to understand instead of trying to figure out who's right & who's wrong.

Thank you guys....

[wakingdream]

Hi Nine. I can understand what you are saying. I think sometimes it is difficult for some people to accept a certain way of life that is very different from their own, no matter how much one travels and/or experiences. I think we definitely project our confusion and misunderstanding onto other cultures sometimes. At times it can be very difficult to understand another's culture, but I believe that many people want to try. It is not right to say what is right or wrong for anyone, it is only right to say what is right or wrong for yourself. Respect can get us everywhere, even when we disagree with one another.

[nine1011]

Hello wakingdream,

Thank you for your respect & rational way of thinking...

[wakingdream]

You're welcome nine. I think your culture is very interesting and I am learning more about it all the time. Were you born and raised in SA?

[nine1011]

Yes, I was born & raised in Riyadh the capital, and I still live there.

What about you, wakingdream?


Any inquiry about the ME, please let me know.

[wakingdream]

Nine, I'm Canadian and grew up in a 100% traditional Hungarian family which has been quite an interesting experience in itself!
I would love to visit the ME. Now I know who to talk to! Thanks.

[nine1011]

You're Welcome.

[nine1011]

Hello uncle_davros,

I'm sorry to say that non-Muslims aren't allowed to visit the city of Mecca neither mosques in general. SA is one of these countries that follow the rules of Islam since it is the host country of both holy cities Mecca & Madinah. Therefore, rules (especially religious ones) aren't subject to people will or influence. I respect your interest & desire, but Mosques in Islam are meant for very holy cause which is prayer. In Islam, it is very important to focus on the main propose. So, when open Mosques to tourist, it will lose its primary objective, and people will tend to focus more on the mosque's design and architect. If we open them for tourism, you will be surprised later that a Mosque became a Museum like what happened in different countries.

For more clarifications about any thing you can't understand about the culture, religion, and local customs (within SA), please let me know.


Best regards,