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[mrjoe]

I've noticed in a few places that tourists are charged a higher price than locals for entrance tickets etc. Obviously tourists are quoted higher prices in shops in many countries but the official higher charge is different.
The worst example I've come across was at the Taj Mahal which charged foreigners nearly 40 times what local people paid.

Personally I don't mind paying a bit more since I do come from a wealthier country but there are limits.

I was wondering what people thought about this issue?

[Jessica_CDN]

That's an interesting one. Personally, I'm not a big haggler when I'm on the road. Mostly because when I do the currency conversion, and I realize that I'm arguing over the equivalent of ten cents, I feel a little ashamed. Also, I'm fine with spending a bit more than the locals for things because I'm assuming that the taxes that they pay go to maintain tourist attractions, or at the very least the transportation etc. that I'm using.

However, I also don't like to throw around my money when I'm away because it creates a false economy. I'm all about sharing what I've got, but it's a) not going to solve their financial problems for me to give them money and it creates a false sense of need / entitlement. Just because I visit someplace doesn't mean that other travelers will be by! I try to get a fair price (often well below what I would pay for an equivalent service / product in Canada) and go with that.

[whereshegoes]

I don't agree with pricing tiers. I think there should be one price. Tourists/travellers/backpackers should be encouraged (not penalized) to check out the local culture. I can't remember how many times I met backpackers who couldn't afford to visit the historical or cultural attractions. What a shame.

[Paul]

Hi, I understand that people don't want to be ripped off and often when people are in a foreign environment and surrounded by a foreign language and culture, they are prone to feeling that they are being treated unfairly. However, please also see things from the other point of view.

Should local Australian aboriginals pay to see Ularu? It is rightfully thiers anyway and it is not their actions that risk damaging the site and it is not their resorts that are making all the money from it. So, this is an example of a two tiered system in a Western country. I think it is fair.

The original author mentioned India. What is the average wage of an Indian? I know in Thailand an average wage is around US$1500 per year (thats about US$4 a day. The world average is around US$1 a day I think). Should a Thai pay the same amount as a foreign tourist pays to see The Emerald Buddha? Even a backpacker? (who incidently probably spends that amount on alcohol alone). If you know the history of the statue you'll know the Thai people have payed for that statue with their blood over the centuries, I think they have deserved the right for a discounted price.

Cambodia is another example. There tends to be a two tier price system for most things there. The prices that shops can ask from foreigners is much more than most locals can afford. If the capitalist system were left to run without some common sense (a two tiered system) all shops would ask the foreigner price as that is what capitalism is about. The shops would make lots of money and the foreigners would get lots of delicious Cambodian food, and most of the Cambodians would starve.

Sure, at times the two tiered pricing system may get abused, but largely in my experience it is fair and helps the local people. If someone can't afford to see something that they want to see, well that is life. Most people in the world cannot afford to leave their village let alone go off travelling and seeing the world, so we should be grateful for what we get.

[whereshegoes]

In a lot of the places I have visited begging is looked down upon by the locals, as it should be. Offer me something for my money, anything, and I will reward you for trying.

I agree with this one 100%

I made it a little rule as I travelled that as long as you could make me smile...a joke, a little dance, a song, WHATEVER...just as long as you were trying to EARN your living rather than beg for it, I would reward you.

When I used to "give" money to beggars out of guilt or pity, I would not feel right about it. It was like saying, "Yes, poor you. You are not capable of taking care of yourself."

Infact, once the best thing I did for a beggar was not give him money, but sit down and listen to his story.
Eddie All he really wanted was recognition that he was a human being and not just some nuisance on the side of the street that people pretend not to see.

[Guest_Paul_*]

I think the discussion is heading off the topic, but I will answer one of the points you brought up. You said the aboriginals could not defend their land so they lost it, and you seemed to suggest that is the way of the world and of humans. I strongly disagree. Do you take food from babies? Do you often go and bash old women and take their money and possessions if you think they cannot defend themselves. Would you think it is acceptable if I bashed you and took your money or did that to your mum? I think most humans, and yourself would think this is not the correct way to act. Was it right to fly jets into buildings in New York that couldn't defend themselves? Your statement suggests it was, but I don't think you believe that. Even at the time the British took Australia as their own, it was against the rules to take something without paying for it. The British got around this by classing aboriginals as in-human and so therefore not capable of owning the land. I hope you are not agreeing that that was correct. The aboriginals are humans and deserved to be treated as such.

"I am not grateful for what I get". Up to you. You will be miserable throughout your life then.

"I earn the right to travel" Is that right? So someone who is not rich does not have that right. Jesus, Buddha, Mother Teresa - they don't deserve the same as you? A villager that produces your food? A cleaner? A monk? Are these people less deserving than you, because you were born in a rich country to rich parents and choose a life of making money?

I understand enough of capitalism to know my planet is in trouble and less and less able to sustain life every day, due to the greed of a small proportion of humans.

[jamesintheworld]

You make more in a month than they do in 2 years, pay the extra 30 cents rich man

[mrjoe]

Personally I'm incredibly grateful for the fact that I've been born in a wealthy country where the job I do has earned me enough money to go travelling. I do agree that the besy way to put money back into a poor community is to spend in local shops and restuarants rather than give handouts.

Back on my original point, the Taj Mahal charged tourists 750 rupees which, though worth it, was an entire day's budget for me and so I was rather annoyed. I paid it but had to reduce my spending in the next few days which meant less money to local people. In contrast, the National Museum of India charged 150 rupees which was, I think, a fair price despite being 10 times the price a local paid, because I could accomodate such a charge in my daily budget.
I don't mind two tiered pricing but in some places there seems to be an assumption that all foreigners are rich. In fact many travellers are on a tight budget and can't spend money like tourists on a two week holiday.

[radsolv]

750 rupees. How much is that at todays exchange rate? When I was at the Taj Mahal in 1980 and again in '81 it was 8 Indian rupees to the USD$. Nepal rupee 12 to 1 and Pakistan 10 - 1 .

Don't recall there being a two tiered system at that time but maybe there was. At any rate I have no recollection of it breaking my very limited budget.

Also in person the Taj was awesome. Like the Grand Canyon of the Colorado, AZ no collection of photos, paintings, videos can do it justice. You Must visit.

It seems to me the comments here say more about the individual personalities than answer the question posed: Is a two tier system fair?
Most comments here seem to reflect a benevolent attitude. However, I don't think I'd find Allen's company very comfortable. Wonder what 'Uncle_Davros' would have to say. Have read a few of his entries and must say his attitudes towards the locals strikes me as obnoxious.

Have some thoughts about begging and dealing with persistent hawkers. Maybe another time.

[radsolv]

Okay, here is one experience I'd like to share. This Forum seems to have gotten a bit off focus of two tiered pricing onto the subject of begging vs. selling.

Anyway it is perhaps the most incredible example I've witnessed of someone seeing an opportunity and seizing it. It happened in second class on a long distance train I was taking from Madras to Calcutta, as they were then known. Unlike my first Indian train experience where it was ride on the roof or no go, this train was only about two thirds occupied. There were no compartments nor even seats. Just long rows of benches on either side.

At one point the plumbing in the 'water closet' broke and flooded the entire floor of our car to a depth of about one or two inches. Since as on many trains throughout the world, the relief opening is to the tracks below. So the water was relatively clean but required us to pull our legs up onto the bench.

Then at one end of the car enters the opportunist. It was a rail thin Indian untouchable in ragged shorts and top. He had wrapped some rag paddings around his knees and was on his hands and knees. With one leg cut off above the ankle and the other below the knee he might have found standing a problem.

He carried large bundles of rags in his hand and proceeded to mop up the flooded floor. I don't recall his having a bucket so he had to make frequent trips to wring out the rags. It took quite a while but he got all the water mopped up and the floor started to dry and we could put our cramped legs back down.

Clearly this opportunist was not a Rail Road employee. But would you believe it, he had the audacity to come back through the car with hand extended -- Begging!! I don't think a single passenger, all Indians except myself, refused him.

========
While I'm at it let me revive another incident of begging on that same trip. This time it was in Gilgit in Pakistan's NW Frontier territory. I was traveling with a Western friend. We were spotted by one of those parasites on society -- a beggar. Well, we wound up each giving him a full rupee, about ten cents US$ but several times what one gave to beggars if you gave to them at all.

Curse our soft hearts but we kind of felt he earned it. He spotted us from about a hundred meters away and eagerly pursued us. He was an adult about three feet long, not tall, because he was on his belly. Like some thalidomide individuals, he had only flippers where we less unfortunate ones have arms and legs. Yet he cheerfully and hopefully clawed his way along the rough surface to us. Now what character in fact or fiction could have sneered at him and refused?
Shylock, Fagin, Iago, Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani who cleaned up NYC of the homeless and squeege operators??? Other examples anybody?
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For the record, I usually don't give to healthy looking children who look like they are just working a racket.

Reminds me of another incident in Pokhara Nepal, of a fourteen or so boy whose 'living I took away from him'. He latched on to us and wouldn't let go continually whining about his infected ear and demanding money for medicine. Well, we happened to run into a British doctor who said he could cure that ear in very short order. The boy screamed in protest. Wonder how long it would take the lad to get it back into 'payoff shape'?

[uncle_davros]

I don't give to anyone !!! I am heartless, especially in India.

On the dual pricing, I used to count the number of locals to tourists. The Taj upset me because there wqould never be the amount of locals to cover the amount of tourists going there.

In Iran, there used to be dual pricing, but now the locals get in for free and you pay the local price. Esfahan used to cost around $18 USD to see everything, but now it costs $3 USD. Made life much better.

[fatduck]

I loathe dual pricing.
Nevermind that the idea is contrary to my sense of human equality and that it doesn't exist in my own country (Canada).
What irks me the most is when I am in a budget country (because I travel on a budget) and historical attractions are a complete rip-off (ie Istanbul or Luxor).
Some dual pricing isn't unreasonable (when the difference is a dollar) but when the difference is thirty bucks like at Taksim Palace or twenty times (like in Syria) I get really pissed off and I end up disliking the country more than I otherwise would of. I lose respect for the site that I am seeing (particularly when churches charge entrance fees to tourists). I resent dual pricing but it's there and travellers have been exploited since the dawn of history, and more than usual especially when the local goverment is running the racket. But there's nothing I can do about it and it's something that has to be put up with.
Seriously, can anyone out there imagine a real solution to the problem that wouldn't be more effort than it's worth?
Of anywhere I've been (Europe and the Middle East) Turkey is certainly the worst perpretrator. They sure seem to take more $ out of tourism than they put in. Call me a cynic but as much as I liked my visit I hate to think that they were using my entrace fee royalty to put down the Kurds in the East.
But I have to add that I resent the EU giving discounts to EU citizens (who hardly need a break).

Maybe if I were really rich I wouldn't care too much. But in that sort of world the sun would rise from the West.

[alohatravels]

well - they even have a tiered system in Hawaii. All the state parks are either free or at a deep discount for Hawaiian residents. Since I pay state taxes already, to keep up these parks, I think this is a great motivation for me to see my local sites.