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[Paul]

Hi - would any of you boycott / avoid travelling to a destination due to political or humanitarian or environmental reasons?

If so - where and why?

China - currently cracking down on Tibetans? Does that deserve a boycott? Would it help?

Burma - Aung San Suu Kyi has asked tourists to stay away and therefore not show support to the junta nor give any money to it - would you follow her advice? Is seeing Burma helping the junta or the people?

Would you have avoided South Africa during apartied?

How about Afghanistan during the rule of the Tellie Tubbies?

Israel? USA? North Korea? Australia? Malaysia? Thailand?...., I suppose I could write out a list of every country in the world - as almost each country does things that many of us wouldn't agree with.

So is it our business to look into their business?

Why should foreigners try to influence other countries even though they probably have little knowledge of their history and culture? Is that over stepping the mark?

Or should you ensure the way you spend your hard earned money is going to places that do the right thing and not going to places where it causes suffering?

Should we just travel and have fun?

Can we achieve anything by trying to do "the right thing"?

???????

What do you think?

[wakingdream]

Great topic! More on this later when I have some time.....

[starlagurl]

Haha, I can't wait to hear what Susie has to say...

I don't agree with boycotts in general. I don't think they work, I think it hurts the people you are most trying to help.

Personal bias on traveling boycotts: I am not too interested in traveling to these areas at the moment. Although I would love to visit Africa, Asia and Australia, I don't have much incentive, because there is SO MUCH that I still haven't seen in North and South America. Who knows if I'll EVER get to any of these places.

Having said that, there are lots of political issues right now in places like Ecuador and Colombia etc. etc. and of COURSE I would visit these places if I felt like it. I don't think sanctions, officially ordered or not, ever did anybody any good. Case in point, Cuba.

I have boycotted the U.S. in the past, but that was more of a personal economic decision, because the Canadian dollar was so horrible for a while, not really because of any political beef, although I have many of them.

After all, federal politics are far away from the personal politics going on in every place that you visit, anyway. Most people don't care what the government is doing, they are trying to make a living too, just like everybody else in the world.

[mmbcross]

I agree...what a great topic.

Frankly I think it must be a personal thing rather than a government mandated policy. I'm going to hear cries of dissent from our Canadian friends, but I would never visit Cuba until the country is more equal. I know Cubans that work with tourists and those that don't. It has created two distinct societies. Those who have access to hard currency from tourist and those who haven't. Tourists are treated like kings and queens and eat what they like, while Cubans are strictly rationed. The classic case is strawberry and chocolate ice cream. Strawberries are grown in Cuba, but chocolate is imported, so chocolate ice cream is only available to tourists with hard currency. Incredible but true. I would just feel guilty visiting a country where I can feast on the best steak and chocolate ice cream, while the population must eat the oxtail and strawberry ice cream. It's not a matter of poverty, just the country can import anything for the tourist, but not for its own population. In fact I wouldn't visit Burma, North Korea, China or Cuba. There are indeed so many other wonderful places to visit.

Wow, I must have missed something. I never knew the tellie tubbies ruled Afghanistan!

[starlagurl]

But that situation in Cuba was CREATED by sanctions!

[wakingdream]

I don't agree with boycotts in general. I don't think they work, I think it hurts the people you are most trying to help.

Hmm, I don't know if boycotts are really positive or not. That being said, I personally don't play the game because I agree with Louise.

Let's take Burma for example; yes the politics stink. Yes the people have and are suffering. But. If I travel there, I don't look at it as, jeez, I'm supporting an oppressive regime etc but more like this; I try to arrive as well informed as possible first off (and I know even that could be up for debate). I'll travel into the country and pick and choose where I spend my money. I'll try my best to support the locals, their business, their lives. I'll try to meet locals, learn about their lives and therefore learn more about their culture and what they face day to day. I think this is a positive influence, both on them and on me. Bottom line. sure we could argue about it forever and why it might be bad to go etc but....well, I'd still go

[starlagurl]

Ohhhhhh, i thought we were gonna have a battle on our hands...turns out not so much...

[wakingdream]

Ohhhhhh, i thought we were gonna have a battle on our hands...turns out not so much...

Haha nope. I can think of some things I personally boycott, but travel? No. There's always something positive about everywhere, even if it might not seem like it. Connecting as people comes before politics of any kind for me.

[introducinlyric]

This is such a relevant topic atm and i think it could become quite heated if everyone on here knew about it. personally i wouldnt boycott but then again i dont particularly have any interests in travelling to said destinations (despite Australia i live there)
Australia atm has boycott the test cricket due to the violence and so forth taking place in pakistan and also theres alot of world media attention focused on china with the tibet crisis atm im hearing things about people boycotting the olympics but i think that will have more to do with personal safety rather than political/religious issues

[starlagurl]

So, would you boycott a place or not?

[mmbcross]

What Wakingdream says is right. If you visit a country, albeit a repressive regime, and try to work with the locals rather than with the regime, it doesn't seem so bad. But it occurs to me the majority of tourists take the 5 star package, where virtually all of the profits go to the regime or foreign investors. The locals just make a minimum wage serving the luxuries to the rich visitors that they are denied.

How about Tibet? Would you still go there?

[wakingdream]

But it occurs to me the majority of tourists take the 5 star package, where virtually all of the profits go to the regime or foreign investors. The locals just make a minimum wage serving the luxuries to the rich visitors that they are denied.

How about Tibet? Would you still go there?

Agreed. I think it's probably easy to visit a place with an oppressive regime and support the regime rather than the local effort. I think you have to be quite aware of what's going on in places that you visit. There are plenty of people who don't care. Well, they care, about themselves. We should always be aware, to some extent, what we fund with our money. I know it isn't possible all the time, but some attempts at least, go farther than we think.

I would personally visit Tibet in a heartbeat. Maybe not when things are so out of control. I know though, that Chinese efforts to keep tourists in certain areas and out of others are hard to combat. The way I would go about a trip to Tibet would require a lot of thought....but still worth it in my eyes. Tibet has always held much appeal for me and the Dalai Lama has always been important to me too so maybe more personal reasons.......

[erriuc]

Taking the risk to repeat what others have said: Good topic!! I understand the frustration of many regarding the politics of some countries. But to boycott a country would in my opinion hurt myself and the locals (from my way of traveling). How can we truly understand the situation of a country and its people if we boycott it?

The world is such a complex place with good and bad people. Is Cuba an evil regime? I think the US have done much worst to Cuba (and the world in general that is) than the other way around. Regarding anything you want to eat... have you been to Cuba? If you don;t stay in a 5 stars hotel... the food is pretty simple. There is so much disinformation everywhere. About Tibet... from China;s point of view... they must contend them. But from a liberal point of view, China is wrong. Who started what first? Today;s apparent power (this is what I believe this discussion is all about) is in the hands of the government, bankers and corporations. However, the real power is in our hands, citizens of the world. If we can synchronize our actions, then they can have weight. So boycotting can only attract attention. There is a need for some healing to happen at the same time. Gandhi understood that too well.

So I guess what I am saying is... What do we really want? Do we want to do little actions here and there or have a significant impact? If our intention is payback time or violence it won;t work because if we beat the current evil, it will be replaced by another one. The best way to solve a problem is peacefully, while cutting the crap however... discussions, politics and diplomacy are usually too slow (and often a media show). The next few months and years will test who we are individually and as societies. What do we want? What are we afraid of? Are we willing to give our life for what we believe in? Until then... we will only scratch the surface of things.

So in conclusion, lets do what we judge is right. If its boycotting a place, lets boycott it. If its not, lets not do it. Lets just make sure we are honest with ourselves and the nature of our intentions. Myself, I am not in a position to have a significant impact in the world at the moment, so I am not going to boycott anywhere. I need to learn first

There is a law in the universe called action-reaction. Be sure that all the sh** stirred in the world will one day come down. More and more people are waking up and with the right catalyst, we could change the world.

[introducinlyric]

well said erriuc

[wakingdream]

More and more people are waking up and with the right catalyst, we could change the world.

You're always so eloquent with your words

I'm there 100% with your thoughts. We can't change the world if we're always fearful of things or wary of things others' tell us to be against or suspicious of or whatnot. Let's think of the all the wonderful heros of the world who have made positive, lasting change. The world needs individual thinkers. Should we believe things just because we read them or hear them? With the right knowledge,we should trust in ourselves to make good decisions and make lasting, positive impacts on the places we travel to, however great or small.

[rbisset]

My mates are always complaining because I'm always saying "I'd love to go to x country" because there really aren't that many places I wouldn't want to go!

As for Tibet, I say go but maybe not for a couple of months! It might be best to wait for the Olympics to finish before going as they are going to be a trying few months for China as I fully expect more unrest in Tibet and possibly Taiwan (although with the new PM maybe not).

When I was in Tibet I stayed in the Tibetan quarter of town, dealt almost entirely with Tibetans and had a great time. The country is absolutely mind blowing and I'd return in a heartbeat (and may do in a few years).

I think the only places I wouldn't visit at the moment are areas that are politically unstable. Iraq, Afghanistan, maybe Cote D'Ivoire, Darfur in Sudan and other central African countries.

That said I'm currently planning a trip to Yemen in October.......

[erriuc]

we should trust in ourselves

You are right. The only person we can potentialy fully trust, meaning fully know... is ourselves. We must have our own convictions. But that is not to say that we cannot be inspired by others!

About China or any other oppressive countries... there is a saying that say that when a ruler or an empire is getting more and more violent and rutless, its because it is afraid and about to break apart. This has been discussed as well in many movies such as Syriana, V for Vendetta and more. But then again, I am pretty sure that other countries are pushing on China because they fear them economically. Without this, they would most probably not talk about the civil right of citizens not being followed. Isn;t it the US who ought China 1/3 of its immense debt? (or several billions or even trillions of $). That being said, the US are also very afraid and Bush actions are quite similar to the rise of a bad german ruler in the 1930s. I let you guess who this one is.

As the wise men (or women) say: the solution will present itself. Lets just be wise enough to recognize it when it comes.

[mmbcross]

If everyone were like us, it would be a perfect world (or would it?). Trouble is, the people who SHOULD be reading this, are not. I guess we have to do our individual best. As my mother used to say - "many a mickle makes a muckle".

[starlagurl]

....what is a mickle?

[mmbcross]

It's something that is smaller than a muckle! Now that the UK has gome metric, I imagine there are 10 or 100 mickles to a muckle. Can anyone from the UK help here?