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> USA/Iran war
Paul
post Sep 25 2007, 06:17 PM
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Hi.

It is hard to tell, but it feels like the USA is preparing its people for war with Iran at the moment. The Iranian leader is being demonized and even France seemed to be interested in picking a fight.??? The USA Army is publishing anything it can that accuses the Iranians for causing violence in Iraq. There seems to be a build up to war

A number of the travelpod members have traveled to Iran and from what I've read they have had great trips.

I am wondering what they are feeling at the moment. What are your thoughts about all this? Are you fearful for the people you met and the sights you saw? How about the Iranians and others in the Middle East -I don't want to turn this into a b!$@% fight / mud slinging exercise)- but how are you guys feeling? People in USA? How about the soldiers out there - are you being told to get ready for war in Iran?
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fourloves
post Sep 26 2007, 07:40 AM
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Too bad, as I was just preparing to travel to Iran whilst on my way to India. I definitely feel the tension on the world stage now, and I worry that our treatment of the Iranian president during this series of speeches is so out of line, that Iranians may actually start to resent Americans... We all know what this is building up to, and itīs crap. Yes, this is extreme tactical future-thinking to get ahead of China, but itīs not our place to be some sort of preßemptive police. The Iranians Iīve met have been very reasonable, and realize that itīs just the government, not the people of the states that is the problem. I only hope that we can be as smart, and stop giving in to propaganda about īdemonicīIran. This will only happen if we let it (like so many other things in life). Oh well, there I go, adding uneccesary fuel to the fire...

I canīt say that I have much experience with this whole war setup thing, but it feels bad, itīs ominous, and I fear that the same apathy that got Bush a second term will let the government slyly push into Iran. I hate history. It repeats itself indefinitely. frantics.gif


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wakingdream
post Sep 26 2007, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE
and I worry that our treatment of the Iranian president during this series of speeches is so out of line, that Iranians may actually start to resent Americans...


Ahh propaganda. Ahmadinejad has been totally demonized here in NA, especially the US. The protests on the streets after his speech at Columbia. The signs. Have you guys read about that? The introduction he was given...wow. Bollinger chewed him up and spiit him back out, to say the least. Not saying I agree with every thought he has or anything, but I don't think he's as bad as he's made out to be. Hmm. Let's take a good look at GB and wonder how much right "we" have to criticize......sometimes I think people are so blind.


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Jessica_CDN
post Sep 27 2007, 09:03 AM
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Actually, I don't think the US is preparing for war at all. First of all, it'd be virtually impossible for the US to prosecute alone. However, the possibility of a UN intervention is rising, particularly given France's comments over the last two weeks.

However, does anyone ACTUALLY doubt that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons developement? And does anyone ACTUALLY think they should be allowed to develop them? (Remember, this is from the country run by a guy who does not believe that the holocaust happened, and believes that ISrael should be completely destroyed.)

I think putting up with his intollerance is intollerable.


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laorfamily
post Sep 27 2007, 09:14 AM
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The US cannot go to war with Iran (right now).

Bush has destroyed our military (and for that matter, our country) and stretched them out so thin they can barely keep up with their current missions.

Also, the US Congress will never approve it, and those cowards won’t make the mistake of giving Bush dictatorial powers again, like they did after 911.


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thellie
post Sep 27 2007, 11:20 AM
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QUOTE(Jessica_CDN @ Sep 27 2007, 02:03 PM) *

Actually, I don't think the US is preparing for war at all. First of all, it'd be virtually impossible for the US to prosecute alone. However, the possibility of a UN intervention is rising, particularly given France's comments over the last two weeks.

However, does anyone ACTUALLY doubt that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons developement? And does anyone ACTUALLY think they should be allowed to develop them? (Remember, this is from the country run by a guy who does not believe that the holocaust happened, and believes that ISrael should be completely destroyed.)

I think putting up with his intollerance is intollerable.


how many countries has iran invaded in the last fifty years? how many has the usa? i think it's academic whether iran is developing nuclear weapons or not. if bush wants to invade, he will - not little obstacle, such as factual evidence, will get in the way of that.

what is more intolerable is western nations continuing their historical trend of selecting their fights on a monetary basis rather than a truly humanitarian one... bosnia and rawanda spring immediately to mind. and on the obverse, iraq, grenada, vietnam. when was the last truly altruistic conflict? WWII? possibly, at a pinch, korea...? maybe, if they hadn't run away after five minutes, somalia...

the iranian president is a fool, potentially dangerous as well, but is he really more foolish or dangerous than bush, or the israelis, or the burmese junta, or putin, or mugabe, or dozens more? where is the rush to arms to stop these dangerous fools?
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laorfamily
post Sep 27 2007, 12:23 PM
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QUOTE(thellie @ Sep 27 2007, 12:20 PM) *

if bush wants to invade, he will - not little obstacle, such as factual evidence, will get in the way of that.


He doesn't have the man power to do so, nor the money, nor the support of the American people. Even the 28% who still somehow support him will not be for this action.

QUOTE(thellie @ Sep 27 2007, 12:20 PM) *

what is more intolerable is western nations continuing their historical trend of selecting their fights on a monetary basis rather than a truly humanitarian one


Wars have always been fought for profit, since the begining of warfare. Very few wars in history are "just", and even those are argueable.

Bush is the only person in the world that could start a war for oil, win the war, and lose the oil.


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wakingdream
post Sep 27 2007, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE
Bush is the only person in the world that could start a war for oil, win the war, and lose the oil.

No doubt. I do believe that if he could start a war with Iran, he would. Thank god Congress screwed their heads back on.

QUOTE
Even the 28% who still somehow support him will not be for this action

I'm really surprised even that percentage of people still support him! Almost 30%? Holy cow! How is that?


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laorfamily
post Sep 27 2007, 01:45 PM
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I'm really surprised even that percentage of people still support him! Almost 30%? Holy cow! How is that?


Good question, no one knows.

However I believe that Albert Einstein had some sort of an explanation just for this phenomenon: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."


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fourloves
post Sep 27 2007, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE(thellie @ Sep 27 2007, 11:20 AM) *


what is more intolerable is western nations continuing their historical trend of selecting their fights on a monetary basis rather than a truly humanitarian one...


That's what I was trying to get at - the idea that perhaps, just perhaps there are some positive motives behind all this middle east setup. If we put aside the oil card for a minute, we could see an attempt at a balance of powers surrounding china in the next few decades. It's a long way off, but China already has the biggest naval fleet in the world...They are being friendly and diplomatic now, but imagine their power in the future.

I really don't beleive in this kind of preemptive setup however it's directed, nor do I think it really trumps the oil card. However, I have this crazy conspiracy that things are little more complicated than just having a really thickheaded, bullying, democratic-evangelical superpower trying to police the world. I really hope - I must hope against all hope, that there is something more behind this, something more farsighted. Not that it makes me waver for a minute on my opinion of how horrible we will be if we proceed in Iran, but if and when we do (with everyone even moderately left crying and rending their clothes), it doesn't neccesarily mean that the US has become a fascist state.

Can of worms, come to me...


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Paul
post Sep 27 2007, 05:59 PM
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I agree that USA cannot currently start a war with Iran. They are stretched in some loosing battles. But they can start preparing. You can see that Iraq was being prepared for for almost a decade, so I am fearful that these same preparations are currently occurring.

I also agree that I don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons. All reasonable measures to stop that, and stop the desire for them would be great.
But I don't want Israel to have nuclear weapons either. Nothing will be done about that due to the support of the USA. Is it any wonder why other countries in the area want them?
To be honest I don't want any country to have nuclear weapons, not even USA. And I certainly don't want the USA to build some crazy missile defence shield in Europe - again causing another arms race, fear and militarization - at a time when we need to be desperately working to stop global warming, not spending billions on arms.

But if in the end Iran gets nuclear weapons - I don't agree that starting a war with them helps the issue. If your next door neighbour chooses to buy a gun - is it useful to go over and punch him in the nose? - I think not. It would be more sensible to be friendly towards them and try to fix the issues in the middle east. In fact surely these threats of war only encourage them more so to militarize.
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fourloves
post Sep 27 2007, 06:17 PM
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We don't want Iran to have a nuclear buildup, but by his own statement, he follows the rules, he gets to play like the big boys. On one hand, we can't deny him, though we may know him to be a knave. Why does the US get to play with hundreds of nuclear weapons, and everyone else gets denied the right? I don't like the idea of mutually assured destruction, but I think Hiedegger was right when he said that a single, beeping sattellite flying aobve our heads is far more fear-inducing than the concept of mutally-assured destruction.

A bit off topic, but:
"It is not nuclear war that represents the greatest threat, even if that is the worst thinkable; but more threatening, is the peaceful, continuous development of technology, because it robs the thinking human being of his essence, of his ability to think."

So what is the real danger here?

Too, I think of C.S. Lewis who asks what would be the use of a world without consequences: would the world really be better if a sharp knife that cuts vegetables perfectly turned to rubber the moment you tried to stab someone with it...


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mizliz
post Sep 28 2007, 01:39 AM
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Much food for thought here...but my main concern is that Israel, which will most certainly be reduced to rubble if the Iranians do obtain these tools, decides to preemptively strike Iran if or when they discover that Iran is close to building nuclear bombs?

This act could easily start WW3, and scares me to death.
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laorfamily
post Sep 28 2007, 08:07 AM
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QUOTE(Paul @ Sep 27 2007, 06:59 PM) *

You can see that Iraq was being prepared for for almost a decade, so I am fearful that these same preparations are currently occurring.


I don't think so.
This is Bush's war no matter how you put it. I don't think another President (not even Bush 41) would have invaded Iraq.


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Jessica_CDN
post Sep 28 2007, 09:17 AM
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QUOTE(mizliz @ Sep 28 2007, 02:39 AM) *

Much food for thought here...but my main concern is that Israel, which will most certainly be reduced to rubble if the Iranians do obtain these tools, decides to preemptively strike Iran if or when they discover that Iran is close to building nuclear bombs?

This act could easily start WW3, and scares me to death.


Actually, you're quite right in that a pre-emptive strike by Israel is a definite possibility. However, I believe that it would not start WWIII....

If the Israelis used a pre-emptive strike against Iran because it was close to developing nuclear weapons, there is very little (if anything) that other regional powers could do. THe US would support the move (albeit reluctantly...) and the only real outcome would be another, or renewed, intifada. At the moment, middle eastern powers only have the capability to wage an insurgency.


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wakingdream
post Oct 23 2007, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE
All countries should be allowed nuclear ambitions. They are not necessarily for warfare. I agree that nukes in the hands of lunatics is a bad thing, but look at Bush...


By allowing all countries to have nuclear 'ambitions' aren't we setting ourselves up for possible disaster? Falling into the 'wrong hands' etc?


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wakingdream
post Oct 23 2007, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE
But instead of saying this person/country should not have nukes, while you sit on a stockpile of many many thousands, at least start (actually start) to get rid of yours (not saying you, more of a Bush thing).


Definitely a major contradiction, something Bush is pretty well-known for. Can't wait until the elections.


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nasr
post Jul 15 2010, 01:39 AM
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[
Hallo
I am Nasr from Iran.
It seems so difficult to talk about the WAR .The point is relationship is not so clear between iranian goverment and U.S.A and we ca not say any thing because of unknown politics between these two goverment.
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